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Brutus - nipping, aggression

BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
edited June 2012 in Bull Terrier Character
This discussion was created from comments split from: Are Bull Terriers Good With Kids?.
- Steve Gogulski
"It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
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  • Ok, I need advice from actual bt owners, I have a 2 yr. old human child, and 2 Bull terriers, my female is 2 and very submissive and wouldn't hurt a fly, my male pup at 7months is just the opposite, with a bring it on attitude. That said he is not a ferocious beast but less tolerant of my young son with the rough play, he gets nervous and starts spinning, and he will nip him if I don't cage him. he has never drawn blood but a pinch, he does this to me and my husband during playing, can't seem to curb this. he has done this twice once over a toy, the dogs toy, as he was apparently resource guarding as I have learned. the other was just last night as my son was playing linebacker and running back and forth thru the house. Brutus reached out and niped his arm while he was running by:( left a welt sorta, just bruised today. I love my dogs as well as my child and don't wish to rehome my dog:( I don't believe he means to hurt him and would absolutely as a mother rehome if I thought so. He gets walked daily and is a real good boy the rest of the time. Anyone have any advice? And quickly as my husband is not so confident that he's not intending to hurt our child no matter what I say. He has never been subject to an aggression problem and I certainly have as well as raised around dogs my whole life. Help:@!!!!!!

    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC

    It's difficult to assess your dogs behavior without being there to see it. He sounds like a very high strung Bullie especially if he's doing a lot of spinning which is a disorder that can worsen as he gets older. Everybody you speak with with have their own oppinions but it sounds as though your 7 month old puppy requires a lot more trainning than the average EBT. What was his parents like? Many Bullies are hyper and crazy until they reach about 18 months old. Yes, it's a long puppy stage and one that takes a lot of patience. However, aggression or bad behavior shouldn't be tolerated and strict enforcement needs to be provided so your dog understands that it isn't tolerated by you and further incidences will result in disciplinary action.

    I'm confident your puppy is just going through normal puppy stages and doesn't wish to cause any harm to your child. My only concern is his spinning which could be caused from stress or genetic disorder. If in fact this is the case he may not have the tolerance with kids as most Bull Terriers would. Playfulness is fine and sometimes an older puppy can be a little much with a small child and accidentally hurt them. However, at no time should the puppy show true signs of aggression. If he's actually trying to bite your son to cause harm with aggression then you've got a problem that isn't normal behavior.  

    Again, it's hard to provide you with proper guidance without visually seeing his temperament and character.

     

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
  • Well, I do NOT like the fact that your dog is biting or nipping your son AT ALL. My dogs have never even come close to this, we dont have kids but my friend has had several bull terriers and 2 kids and nothing close to this. It sounds to me, the excitement of your child is seriously stressing your dog out. Bull terriers can be spinners, but its BAD BAD BAD. You should NEVER let your bull terrier spin, its commonly thought to be related to epilepsy (seizure disorders). A dog, or a bull terrier should NEVER bite someone unless seriously threatened. The fact that your child is running and he nipped him is completely wrong. I would never tolerate it and from the very first bite things would change for that dog. When your playing with your dog, there is NO way in hell he should be biting hard or pinching you, I would never let that happen. Some dogs can play like that and never have a problem, some dogs should just never be allowed to put there mouths on people ever because they take it to far. Some can handle it, others can not. Firstly stop rough housing with this dog at all, no more teeth on you or your husband at all ever. This dog is not able to have that power anymore. Secondly start practicing NILF which is "nothing in life is free" because this dog has far too much freedom and that needs to be taken from him now because he is being absolutely disrespectful. If he at all bullies the female, take care of that too, this dog needs to go to the very bottom of the totem pole immediately. I recommend two more things, you get this dog checked health wise, blood tests to make sure nothing is wrong with him causing this aggression, thyroid issues cause aggression and the spinning is a real concern for me, how often and frequently does this dog spin? What food is he on? Does he have any other OCD's or strange behavior?? My next advice is you might want to look into a really good dog trainer/behaviorist in your area, maybe someone with bully breed experience. Also make sure the child is not hurting this dog or abusing it in any way, I know kids will be kids but make sure hes not really doing anything to him thats causing him to be defensive. I have never had my dogs leave a pinch mark on me and you can bet if they did it would be the last time, the most i have received are puppy scratches. I dont know if crating him while hes uncomfortable is ever solving the problem, this is a way of punishment to him and he will see this child as the reason he has to sit alone in his cage. It's not actually solving the problem, I would keep him on a leash, and keep him near you, and when he is uncomfortable with the child try to sit him through it, but dont praise him in his nervousness by saying "its okay its okay" because that is like praise when he is nervous making him think that is how he should be. If he goes to nip him pull him back on the leash with a correction or a sharp NO! Get him to work through the anxiety. I hope that this can be helpful as its only my recommendation as its always hard to judge this without seeing it first hand, but this is an issue that should not be ignored and you must act now to try to resolve it.

    http://www.terrificpets.com/articles/102212265.asp

    http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/nothingfree.htm
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, till the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." WWW.ZERLETTKENNEL.COM
  • First of all thanks so much for your posts, I know this is a contraversial subject but I assure you I am careful with this dog and do protect my son, but I do not intend to give up on this dog however like my husband keeps saying when is enough enough:/ I don't want any blood or stitches to ever arise and I appreciate all and any help and ideas from yous. So to answer some question, Brutus is high strung yes, Cleo my female was also but without the nervous spinning, wich he does only when he's nervous of what's going on around him, the latest incident I should have been able to stop as I seen it coming with the spinning and nervous eyes. He does this a couple times a day less when he's exercised more. His parents: dad was 75 lb. Mom was 50. I can't testify to their temperament however I have meet both of Cleos parents and the rest of the breeders dogs and they were well tempered, nice dogs. They got Brutus's dad after I met with them. He got im out of the truck for a few minutes and he was anxious of the dog being walked across the road so didn't really interact with him a whole lot. He was Beautiful!! Brutus is at 71/2 months 55lb, already. My female topped out at 50, they are both feed taste of the wild she gets primarily fish based and he gets the high prairie puppy. This food is grain free and contains no chicken as Cleo has an allergy to it. They do get into each others food, he was aggressive on this at first but I have worked him out of it. He sees a vet annually and is in good health. I did discuss the ocd with my vet and he said if it continues we can put him on a medication to calm him down, I will jump over the moon so this doesn't have to happen as I am not for medicating my dogs unless absolutely necessary, I would rather train not medicate. No other strange behavior other than being woke up by my son he used to growl but I have taught my son to leave him be when he's sleeping, he does not do this to me or my husband. we quite ruff play with him as he can't play without mouthing and nipping. He does bully my female but she got after him a few times and its gotten much better, as well as using a rolled up newspaper. My son will slap him in the nose and tell him no when Brutus tried to rake things from him,but I have enforced the no hitting rule, and its gotten better. I don't believe that the dog is or would intend to hurt him or anyone its almost like he is correcting him, however this is not his Job! I have been working hard to establish myself as pack leader and he is doing better, however I do have my hands full:/ he nips me and my husband out of excitement and I have been pinching his lip. This is not seeming to help either so I am going to roll another newspapers and try that but its hard to carry a newspaper 24/7. Can you give me some examples on strict enforcement maybe that I could try other than caging wich I agree don't solve anything but to calm him down. And any other advice would be appreciated, thanks:) and again thanks for the reply!




    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • The cage also offers security and if I put Brute into a sit stay for a few minutes this helps also. also to clarify it was his dad that was fixated on the dog across the road not brutus and I got him at 3mo. if I didn't answer something let me know and if you need more info to try to help with tips also. this breed is not common to this area and noone really knows much on this breed locally. I Googled and found this forum so I thought I would start here.
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • Leslie, you are doing a lot of things right.  You are trying different strategies until you find one that works for your dog, and you are asking for help.  I watch our 3 year old granddaughter M-F.  She does not always have appropriate behavior toward our dogs.  I have to watch very closely.  I correct her AND the dogs.  I use my voice and my body.  I make my no's sharp and loud.  I hold up a STOP hand or finger while shaking my head no.  I place my body between child and dog when I don't like what's going on.  I try very hard to be consistent with my body language and voice commands.  I don't like to use the crate as a punishment.  I want the crate to be their safe den of peace and treats.  This being said, I do not leave the child and dogs together all day long.  We have a fenced area on our 3 acres.  I am constantly letting the dogs in and out of the house and in and out of their crates with treats and toys.   It's a juggling game and takes a lot of work.  I hope this could be a little helpful to you.
  • Does he know basic obedience? If you can find a trainer to help you or if you can do it yourself I would start working his mind in some basic obedience, sit, stay, down, take it, leave it, drop it, come when called. It can be helpful to work on these things so that you will have some clear signals to give him when you ask him to do something. Every so often my dogs relapse and stop listening and we have to refresh our training. All my dogs have been trained with electronic collars for distance training, some may not approve of it but I go on hikes and dog parks and they need to be spot on in case there far away from me and the most important command they must know is come immediately when called. I use the shock collar (electronic collar) to communicate with them from a distance, I train them with a beep sound on the collar first and than correction if they dont respond. They learn to just respond to the beep in time. I only use this on dogs that fully understand the command first, with training with treats and leashes in puppy hood, as they get older and push the limits more past 6 months I use the electronic collar to reinforce the training.
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, till the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." WWW.ZERLETTKENNEL.COM
  • we have the innotek underground pet fence, works great for my female but if my male wants it bad enough whatever it may be he's going fence on high and all:( luckily my female is my runner and my male is really good at sticking around other than he really likes my neighbors and their dog. he sits in front of their glass door almost like asking if their dog can play! My female also got out once due to dead battery in her collar and she was half way down the road and heres my male looking down the road at her then back at me like what do I do what do I do, hey cleo we live here where you going!! I called him as he comes very well and it was like helping him with his choice he came running ass over tea kettle back, like thanks mom I don't know what she's thinking:) hahaha. He does no some basic obedience like sit stay, shake. I have thought of the shock collar except he wears the fence collar however he's not a runner so maybe that might work?:/, at least during training:/ thanks for the tip:) my dogs are in and out all day as well I might go nuts if I couldn't just let them out! Thanks for the help, if you think of anything else please let me know! I need all the help I can get, and theirs no such thing as to much knowledge:) thanks guys:)

    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • Hey Zerlett, when you give the shock do you do it after the command was given or before, I don't have the beep warning on mine but this one has the nick or full out shock. Also because my male is nervous spinning I heard you do not want to shock while in the nervous state as it will escalate the aggression what's your thoughts on this?
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • Round 3 Brutus again bit my son in the cheek and actually this time did draw a small amount of blood:( I believe I'm out of time on this dog:( I cannot totally keep them separated and I'm only one person, I love this dog but my loyalties are to my son. he is nervous of my boy and can't seem to handle loud activities around him. if I keep him caged or outside to separate the two his anxiety level I think will spike higher and he needs more activity than I can give him. as I wait for my husband to come home from work then take him on hour long walks or so. he could do that 3x and still go some more, his energy turns aggressive even being outside most of the day. I don't know what to do:( I cannot let this continue and take anymore chances but how do I rehome a dog like this! I am lost and very very sad as I feel like I failed him.
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC

    Leslie,

    I'm sorry to hear about your Bullie. That's not typical behavior of a Bull Terrier and I assume a lot has to do with his genetics. I've rescued several Bullies that had personality quirks, aggression, and health issues all associated with genetic disorders from bad bloodlines and inappropriate breedings.

    I'm sure with a lot of training he'd make a good dog for a family without kids or to single owner. As young as he is his aggression may worsen as his confidence builds with age. I wouldn't trust him around other dogs either since I have a feeling his temperament isn't correct. I'm willing to bet his parents were the same way but you may not have noticed it. You mentioned not spending much time with the sire and chances are there were good reasons why they avoided prolonged interaction with him.

    For the safety of your child I would either ask a friend or relative (without kids) if they could watch over him until you find a new home or invest in an outside kennel for him to stay in until he's adopted. I wouldn't let him near your child again. Something just isn't right about him. You may want to bring it up with the breeder and let them know what happened. I'd let him know that you feel he has a genetic disorder that's put your childs safety in danger. There's no excuse for any dog biting someone deliberately for no reason. Maybe he'll take him back and provide you with some finances to compensate for the investment on a Bull Terrier that was supposed to have been in appropriate physical and mental health.

     

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
  • Thank you, I have contacted them through e mail this evening and am waiting to hear from them, I am soooo sad as I am so attached to him:( I know it sounds silly that I could even like this dog given how he is to my child but I truly love him, and the thought of handing him over makes me cry. I highly dout they will compensate as my female was diagnosed with urinary incontinance and corns on her feet and they told me they would give me a deal on my next one but would not give me any money back:( she's on meds but still leaks urine:( she's super with Eli and I wouldn't put her down to get a new one which they required:( I use a dremel on the corns and meds to help tighten the bladder muscles:/ she rarely makes it thru the night without waking me up to go outside:(( I am done with this breeder, The though of handing him back to them makes me sadder:( he is neutered but still:( this sucks for lack of better words:( I am soooooo gonna miss him:(
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • They just contacted me back and and asked if it was a play bite but he lacks bite control WHAT IS BITE CONTROL!!!!!! ANYONE:/
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • I've never had my dogs become "more aggressive" with the shock collar, its only corrected issues i've had. Of course, quality in such a tool is vital, timing and the communication between dog and owner. Many people have there opinions about spinning, many think they need medication, i think its many things that dont need medication, mostly training and exercise. So this dog came from the same breeders?? I am SHOCKED you bought this dog from the same people, after having an issue with the first one. Who is this breeder? Is there a website for them?? Is there a bull terrier rescue in your area?? I would recommend talking with them, some of them wont take a dog with a history of biting, some will, I would check, dont take him to a shelter they will probably euth him for any type of bite history. A bite to the face is no joke, I agree with Steve, remove him from the child and if possible out of the house. Im sorry im not closer, I would take him for you and work with him. He would receive doggie boot camp from my home. I think the breeders you got these dogs from are retarded, likes bite control? Uhm never heard of such a thing, hes spinning and hes biting, something is not correct with this dog at all. Your best option is a bull terrier rescue, they can have him checked out health wise and adopt him to a no child home.
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, till the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." WWW.ZERLETTKENNEL.COM
  • Zerlett, I totally agree I should have never taken another dog from them but given the issues with my first one I got him at a fraction of the cost and his wife just had a baby and couldn't care for him so they offered him to me. I don't have a rescue less than 6 hrs away, it would be Detroit, and I will absolutely NOT take him to a shelter. I couldn't do it. I am setting here still trying to think of ways to help this dog:/ I could make him stay outside now that its warmer and separate my son and him but through the day and crate him when I needed but my concern is he already has pent up energy, would I be making it worse? The breeder is a Michigan Indiana breeder and yes they do have a website Aegeanbullterriers@hotmail.com I really like her but its him that does the breeding. I don't want to slander anyone and I would hate to think they are breeding iresponsably, I meet all but one of their dogs when we met with them to show him my Vets statement on Cleo and they were all wonderful with long interaction intervals but he wouldn't show us the grounds:( Cleo is well tempered so much so my son actually hugs her neck and walks her on a leash:) that is why I took on the second dog from them. I too wish you were closer or BulliesofNC because I could really use the help:/ in either of your opinions do you think this dog could ever ne trusted with my son ever again? I though about keeping them completely separate until I work thru some of these issues. unless I find a no kids household that lived up to my standards to take him.
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • Adding to the above he did shy away when I went to grab him after the last nip/bite, do he knows it wrong and not excepted. and he pretty much knew to go to his crate:(
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC

    Leslie it's a big risk to keep the dog unless you plan on building him an outside kennel and taking the time to train him. The problem is your dog may be fine with adults but have no tolerance to kids.

    What's weird is I rescued a dog about 2 years ago that came from this same kennel. As you probably already know, the first warning sign should have been the fact the breeder didn't welcome you to see his kenel facilities on his grounds. Trust me if he was confident and proud of the way he raised his dogs he'd be showing off to you. Many breeders will have one or two house dogs and kennel the rest. Don't judge the house dogs - judge the ones they have hidden out back. Again, this goes back to why they didn't afford you the opportunity to spend time with the sire of your puppy.

    Saddly, there are other Forums that constantly rant and rave about the mere fact that people should only purchase Bull Terrier puppies from BTCA breeders. Yours actually comes from a BTCA breeder and it's no surprise as to the genetic problems of both your dogs as well as the fact they won't compinsate you for the medical bills for your female and now mental issues with your male. I'd stay clear from this breeder.

    Don't worry about anyone from this forum slandering the breeder you purchased your dogs from. The whole intent of building this forum was to attract a different community of Bull Terrier enthusiasts then what is commonly seen on other bull terrier forums. Zerlett can attest to this statement as she and I were the ones that pursued the idea of initiating a new forum without the idiots that consistantly stirred problems in other forums. Now a days I simply mind my own business and continue trying my best to produce the best Bull Terriers possible. However, I do keep tabs on those breeders doing things inappropriately so I can ensure what dogs not to breed with when someone asks for stud service from one of my dogs. I've also learned I want nothing to do with the BTCA until they start practicing what they preach. This is just another example of a someone having to deal with the misfortunes of buying a puppy they thought was coming from a reputable breeder who in turn sold them a puppy with an array of genetic problems. In your case it sounds like you got two. I wrote the below listed document and posted it on another Bull Terrier forum and many of the BTCA breeders were pissed becuase they knew I put together an authetic document on "How to find a reputable and professional Bull Terrier breeder" and it clearly depicts many areas in which they didn't wish for me to expose to the public and potential customers looking for a puppy.

    http://bulliesofnc.com/finding-reputable-bull-terrier-breeder

     

    "He lacks Bite Control" ???

    He's just making up some BS. I would have told him - "Correct! He has no bite control and wishes to cause harm and injury to my son." I call it unwarranted aggression that has no merit. Danielle (Zerlett) is correct, this dog has problems. Rarely do you hear of a Bull Terrier acting the way he is. I've had small puppies wanting to play rough with kids and nip while they're wagging their tails and rolling around. However, this would be something expected from any puppy regardless of the breed. This puppy behavior can be taught quickly so the young puppy understands not to nip. Your puppy is a lot older and this doesn't sound like a friendly playful nip to get attention and love.

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
  • Bulliesofnc, first of if you would be straight with me why did you end up rescueing that dog? For what reason ? Second they said if I want money they would post him on their web but I would have to hang on to him until they found him a home, or I drop him off and take their female they have been breeding that they are 100% sure of, I don't want a female I want BRUTUS:( A MALE WITH NO GENETIC FAULTS:( I AM STUNNED to here you rescued one of their dogs as I thought I had better judgement than that. I am rocked!!! I love this dog and am only trying to protect this breed. If mike Vick said come and get all my pits I would have, eatin alive or not:( I am torn not to take this female and save her god help me:( what do I do, I am apparently great at building them up from self-esteem issues and not so good at knocking them down. I just want Brutus to be good:( the longer I hold on to this dog the more I wanna try and I cannot put my child in any more danger:( doglover hardcore:( I am lost to say the least what do I do, hand him over and try their female ( which mine is Awsome and save her from more breeding but have to spay) or let them sell him and/ or give him to my mom that would in fact get in between a fighgt as hers is an unaltered male but a small dog that would for sure be eatin by Brutus if he chose to. And my son would still go c grandma. Hell I don't know:( if I could get him to you would or could you help me?
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • WOW....I know this kennel too...BTCA-its a joke! What an interesting surprise...they plan to rehome them themselves if you take the female? That idea might be the best thing if you can't get him out of the house, and going to grandmas is definitely not going to work, to many lose ends there. Otherwise you can muzzle him while hes in the house and give it time, a good cage muzzle is comfortable and safe, but he would probably just end up hitting your son with the muzzle. Atleast there some how offering to take him back, which is the responsible thing to do, but will this new female be okay with your female is the question...I don't think I would take any more dogs from this kennel, you could end up with there female sure, but what if she needs vet attention, it will all fall in your lap still.
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, till the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." WWW.ZERLETTKENNEL.COM
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    edited April 2012

    Leslie - You asked why I rescued this dog that came from the same kennel. I'm shocked you asked that. However, I'm going to have to assume you didn't read the link I provided you on Professional and Reputable breeders. Let me let you in on a little secret ~ As a breeder who cares deeply about the welfare of every Bull Terrier I rescue every and all Bull Terriers I can get my hands on in order to save them from being euthenized. I'm the only one that provides Bull Terrier rescue in the state of North Carolina. Google Bull Terrier rescue in NC and you'll find me right away. In the event a Bull Terrier is in need of rescue here in my state I take on that responsibility and work with the dog and then find him or her a loving and permenant home. I probably rescue and rehome about 10 bullies a year. Well that's about as straight as I can give it to you. Once again please take the time to read the article I provided you. You may find out real quick the breeder your dealing with doesn't quite fit the mark and cares nothing about selling you a dog ( or dogs) that don't live up to the standards of the breed.

    It sounds as though they don't mind reposting your dog on their website for sale again and once he's sold they'll compinsate you with a little bit of money. God bless the next person who receives him and doesn't know his history. Hopefully they won't have any kids. I think it would be best if you advertised him and did so with the intentions of rehoming him in to an appropriate person or couple.

    I often receive inquires from people looking to adopt a rescue Bull Terrier and I've been very fortunite to find perfect homes for the rescues that I've saved to include the one from the breeder you're dealing with. Additionally, as a courtesy I will also be more than happy to offer your puppy on my website for the pursuit of finding him a home you'd approve of.

    Hopefully I've answered your question in regard to why I rescued the Bullie.

    Here's a photo of him that I used to advertise his adoption on my website. It's awesome knowing he found a perfect home where he's getting all the attention he deserves.

    image

     

     

     

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
  • Bulliesofnc, I asked why you rescued him not litteraly but meant was it an aggression problem also With that dog as he is a carbon copy of the dad and that was one when I went to their house they wouldn't show us him as they said he had gotten ringworm, also I have read your post on the reputable breeder and no they don't stack up, I read it awhile back when you posted it for someone looking for a pup, and again with your post recently. I have also been on your site, very nice dogs you have, to bad I didn't know about you before I went and got into this mess. I simply have always wanted a bull terrier way back since Spuds Macenzie when I was a child,and have done my homework on this breed and do know these are not normal behaviors of this breed. I want to say I appreciate your offer and in the last post of mine I asked if I could get him to you would you help me. I am just torn as I loved having two dogs and know it will ne a long while before I will ever be able to get another, wich is why I was entertaining the thought of taking their female, but my first priority is making sure he goes to an appropriate home and that the people know his past. it would be nice to get some compensation for this mess and possibly help me afford another bull terrier down the road as I too truly love this breed which is also why I am feeling a little incompetent right now, and that I have failed my Brutus:( would you ne willing to talk with me on the phone? I feel it would be a lot easier to discuss this than trying to type all of my feeling and concern.



    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • Thanks for your post Zerlett as I have been over all those things in my head to, very sad day for me. Grandma is my only option to get him out of my house and I know he would be well taken care of, but loose ends yes. I just wish I had time to help this dog as I hate the thought of giving him up. A muzzle may be in order if not an option thanks!
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    edited April 2012

    Leslie you're welcome to call anytime.

    -Steve

     (910) 526-2273

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
  • Steve, thanks so much for your time earlier as I hope you have a better understanding of me and my situation, they contacted me back via email I would like to forward it to you to get your reaction, if I email it to bulliesofnc.com will you get it or should I use a different address?
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC

    you can use the one on the website or steve@bulliesofnc.com

     

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
  • Brutus update! He is doing well! I am so pleased with his progress. I took him to a trainer on aggression only to learn that he had no aggression and that he was a brat:( I was not being a tough enough leader for him and he has a very high pray drive wich was causing the spinning. I have worked with him tirelessly and to this day have not had him even raise a lip to my son, we are still in need of some work on him bullying my female and their is minimal spinning only when he's super worked up and I make a point to push all of his buttons on ocassion just to reinforce he still knows what's not exeptable. I have not only probably saved his life but he has taught me that I can be a very strict leader and have iron will:) good to know:) is he gratefull.... NO but is he respectfull YES. good ending to a bad situation, I am pleased. I still don't leave him unattended with my child but maybe someday he will earn that Privilege. We will see. Thanks to all whom had a kind word or helpful advice as this was an experience I will never forget and neither will he cause I won't let him:)
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC

    That's great news Leslie! It sounds as though my very first reply to your post above was right on the money. I'm really glad to hear he is working out and that you've devoted some extra time into him to curve his evil ways. LOL.

    He may be a brat and a little more high strung than normal but he's still young and with all the training and attention you're providing him he will improve more and more as he matures.

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
  • this is awesome news!!! keep at it leslie they are worth the extra work!!! im proud of you and Brutus!!! the household will be so much more humble now!
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, till the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." WWW.ZERLETTKENNEL.COM
  • He is worth the effort he's a real good boy :O :D
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • Thankyou both for your posts I certainly have had my work cut out for me but progress has been made and that is worth much more than the effort:) he still has a little ways to go but we will get their! I have a hard time keeping his energy drained as I have a young son to tend to and walking doesn't even begin to touch it. He loves his flirt stick and that does a nice job of running his energy out but need some fresh ideas:) got any? He's a lot of dog but he means well. He defenatly has an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other:) I am just so proud of him and his desire to please, yes I did say desire:@ he does care he just sometimes needs A LOT direction!! Haha
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • I have seen those posts before.... I think I even started that thread:) I am looking for dog agility exercises and some possible training ideas like hide the ball, but I can't seem to find a ball nomatter what its size that he can't kill in a day or two:( what type of ball was used for the tether ball YouTube video? He has a jolly ball that he does laps around the yard with on his nose but I'm sure that he's got to get bored with that too. The treadmill sounds wonderfull but they are pricey to buy:/ I am currently looking for an affordable pulling harness, I found one on amazon and am thinking that might be a not so bad price:) I could do a lot with it like rollerblading with him:) first I would have to learn how!! we had a accident on a bike and he will not run Nxt to one again, I have tried everything and he just gets worked up and stops in the road and spins. not good:( I am working also on purchasing a book on beginning agility training but some of the stuff for that is expensive and theirs a lot of it if we want to ever get to a competitor level which I hope to one day:)!!!
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • What a very intresting read this, everyday it seems im learning more and more bad things about Aegean kennels and the owners.

    i will not go into the reast of the crap i know about them but you can bet I wouldnt ever buy OR sell them a puppy (if i were a breeder)

     

  • and to think Chairity they are a BTCA member, all that shit they were giving you on the international forum, maybe you should have gotten a pup from Aegean NOT!! lol
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, till the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." WWW.ZERLETTKENNEL.COM
  • yep, i know it! im glad i did not get a pup from them and am VERY happy going thru Kenandai, did you know when i went to pick up Chimera he wanted me to spend the day there to get to know all of his dogs? he also invited me and my sister out to show us around Chicago and to take us out to dinner. Im very glad i bought a pup from him hes very very nice and went over EVERYTHINg with me the contract, the pedigrees of mom and dad and grandma plus explained all the health certificates of mom and dad as well. plus i have not heard one bad thing been said about his dogs the people who have gotten pups from him i even accedentally found another owner from another forum who asked me if Chimera came from Kenandai and he told me he has a dog from Kenandai and its the mellowest bully he has ever owned. so im super happy to have bought from him
  • Someone enlighten me on this. Thank god you didn't buy one of their pups!! Thanks to me I have 2 good. Bullies no thanks to them. I am curious only to compare my experience!
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC

    Yep, your Bullies are in good hands and getting all the love and attention they deserve. I was happy as can be when you told me Brutus was doing much better and aggression issues were going away. Thanks to you, you were able to train him properly and overcome any issues that could have gotten worse. So many people simply give up on their dog and expect them to train themselves or develop perfect temperaments or characters. Many times it takes commitment and training from the owner or owners. I commend you for your devotion with Brutus. He looks like a great dog and one to be proud of.

    I don't think xchirity casex was implying anything bad about your Bullies. Sadly, however, there have been an influx of people commenting on facebook, forums, and even emailing me about their Bull Terrier problems from a puppy or grown dog that came from this particular breeder. Could be a coincidence or it could be a problem steming from the breeding practices and/or breeding stock they're using. The upsetting part for others like xchirity casex, Zerlett, and others is the mere fact that there are other members of the BTCA who will go out of their way to critize all breeders that aren't from their "Club" by trying to ridicule other breeders and pretending as though they're subject matter experts on the Bull Terrier breed when truthfully they're just a BYB with their name a club roster. For these reasons alone many Bull Terrier enthusiasts (including myself) keep their distance from clubs due to some of the unprofessionalism, constant gossip, and ugliness that projects from some of the members. Unfortunitely there is a lot of politics involved within proud Bull Terrier owners, club members, breeders, and those that like to show their dogs. You'd think all these people that share the same love for the breed would all act professionally and get along. However, animosity runs rampid on other Forums, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Personally I try my best to avoid the BS and keep my oppinions to myself unless provoked by unwarranted slander from someone hoping to gain recognition by assuming negative practices simply because I'm not in their club.

    This Forum was actually initiated due to others wanting a better and more professional place to interact with other Bull Terrier lovers who choose not to engage in disputes or troll for fights and negative slander.

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
  • I don't usually do forums and the only reason I found this one was looking for help with Brutus from actual bt owners. I dont Facebook at all so I wouldn't know about other sites or forums and all their B.S.! I was just wondering what she knew about Aegean breeders as I could contact their club and let them know what's going on as I own 2 dogs that came from them. I do know she meant nothing bad about my bullies sorry fir the misunderstanding:) and again thanks for the info good to know!!
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • well i know that Aegean bought a few dogs from Kenandai and broke contract with the breeder and is refusing to acknowledge the breeder of 3 of there dogs. the and the pedigrees of those dogs (who are retired)

    the pedigrees the feature on the websight they excluded Kenandais dogs.

    they also bad mouthed the breeder of Kenandai.

    did i mention that they DO NOT health test? which is SUPPOSED to be every BTCA member is supposed to do they do not.

    also right now they have a dog from milkyway kennels, which if you talk to any breeder from international bull terrier forum wil tell you milkyway kennels is a big NO NO, but i guess its okay for a BTCA member to breed/own a dog from them though?

    i think a small time breeder who loves and cares for there dogs can be better then the big name kennel whos only out to breed the best show dog possible. nothing wrong with breeding a great show dog but i think they get too hung up on it. i have heard big name breeders bashing milky way kennels due to them breeding so many puppies per year yet i see the same kennels bashing that are advertising on FB litter after litter after litter no differant then milky way so they have no room to talk.

  • Hmmmm I wonder if the dog your talking about is Benny Brutus s dad and their latest male that they breed? He's been breed to at least 3 of their females since they got him earlier this year!! He said he got a great deal on him.....Ugggg.... they do love to show. Both mine are limited akc but I was after pets and would never breed. Sad info they have some real sweet dog. :(
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC
    edited June 2017

    Facebook, Twitter, Forums, etc can sometimes be a place for others to cast false judgement on other breeders as well make assuptions by what they see. We've had people tell us that we produce many litters each year. It kind of cracks me up when I hear this because it always comes from ignorant people who don't know us at all and don't realize there's two families within Bullies of NC and between us both we may produce 4 litters per year. However, we advertise for other reputable breeders like Rainbow Kennels who have been breeding for more than 20 years and have fantastics dogs with no history of health or temperament problems. We also advertise for small private breeders who have come to us for stud service. With this, WE, could appear as though we're always selling puppies as well.

    Everybody is going to have the own personal oppinions on what makes a good breeder from a bad breeder. I wrote an article awhile back titled "How to Find a Reputable Bull Terrier Breeder" that caused a lot of waves for other breeders for exposing many elements in which they weren't doing.

    The best advice I could give anyone wishing to find a good breeder, regardless if they're big or small, is to go visit them and spend time with their dogs. It's pretty easy to identify a breeder who cares deeply about their dogs, the future of their puppies, and has a true passion for the breed vice breeding for financial gain.

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
  • leslie- no benny is not from Kenandai nor from Milkyway.

    the dog Zues a tri is  from milkyway kennels.

    i just find it hypocritical of othe breeders to condone a person a "bad breeder" when they themselves are doing the same thing. and i must agree i think the best breeders LOVE and care for there dogs and the breed those are the best breeders IMO

  • Brutus setback:( well let me explain.... he has been limping lately due to some prolong play and has seemed to halve pulled a muscle in his front leg so per vet we are not allowing him any rough play like flirt sticks or ropes just plain old obediance training and walking and this does nothing to run out his energy level:( so yes you guessed it his evil side has started to resurface:( he was on top of my female outside today and I had all I could do to get him off her. No blood or wounds but scared the daylights out of her yet again:( he has tested all my nerves and now is back for a second round I guess:( I think I need a treadmill!!! Seriously. Any ideas here anyone as my vet said it will take 3 to 6 months to heal itself. Ugggg:(
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • BulliesofNCBulliesofNC Richlands, NC

    I'd have Brutus on a training collar that was remote activated. This way if he so much as showed a slight bit of aggression he'd receive a surprising jolt that would disrupt his train of thought. In due time he'd start to realize there was immediate consequences for negative behavior. I've heard people have great luck with training collars and in Brutus's case I feel he needs some other means of training to get the message across.

     

    - Steve Gogulski
    "It's not just a Dog, it's a Bull Terrier!"
    Training Collar.jpg
    500 x 500 - 23K
  • Thanks Steve!! The collar is charging now!
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • yup i second a shock collar, in this situation the most clear way to communicate with Brutus is by using a remote collar, its really going to change his way of thinking, i use them on my dogs for recall when off leash or at the dog park to ensure they come when there supposed to, because it can be a matter of safety!
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, till the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." WWW.ZERLETTKENNEL.COM
  • It's working he's had a few issues since but I haven't needed to do anymore than just zap him a bit and he quickly tones down his attitude:) the limping has subsided a bit so I'm hoping to get back to his regular routine soon!!! It's even stopped his nuts barking at night when he goes outside I think he's scared of the boogie man:) when Cleo goes out with him he dont bark :/
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • the shock collar is going to immediately tone him down and bring him to a submissive way of thinking. Its all about timing, if the timing is off, it wont be successful, so its about timing.
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, till the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." WWW.ZERLETTKENNEL.COM
  • Here we go again.....I am back to NILF WITH HIM!!!!! Brutus has decided that he owns my bed and couch. He was laying on me last night and my husband purposely started peting and kissing his face intern Brutus nipped his face.... This dog is on my last nerve he didn't draw a little bit of blood but nothing more than he's ever done before it's just been a while.. I thought that we were past all this apparently not he got put in his cage for this for the rest of the night in the morning he was spinning chasing his tail what is wrong with this dog it's 10 steps forward 20 steps back:( my son went to stop on the side of my bed in the morning and Brutus was on the bed with me sleeping and he growled like nasty mean growl so I threw him off the bad as he was growling at me and made him go outside since then I love him on nothing in his cage is back any advice here at all Steve he might make it to webpage after all:(!!!!!!!
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
  • That was supposed to be let him on nothing at all stupid spellcheck;/
    Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words.
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