What does a good health gaurantee cover? - Bull Terrier Health and Wellness Discussions on Strictly Bull Terriers

Zerlett

I spoke to a woman today who bought a bull terrier from sly eyes kennels. She and I spoke about how her puppy had demodex mange. She paid about 2400 to fully cure him of it. On the breeders web site they dont cover demodex and it clearly states it doesn't cover any of the following...

"The
puppy is guaranteed for one
year from the puppy’s date of birth for any
life threatening congenital/hereditary disorders or six months from
the date of purchase on older dogs. Any
known fault will be disclosed in advance and in writing. There are
certain disorders
that may be caused by environmental factors,
for example: allergies, thyroid dysfunction, demodectic mange, and other
autoimmune
disorders that are not covered by this
guarantee. The seller is not responsible for stress related illness such
as hypoglycemia,
colds, coccidia, giardia, nor kennel cough.
The following things are not covered in the health guarantee
molero,internal/external
parasites,physical problems which is or could
be the result of injury (hip dysplasia), collapsing trachea, hernias,
non decending
testicals, luxating patellas or breed
ability."

Several of what is listed are actually genetic, esp hernias, mange, autoimmune disorders, luxating patellas, hip dysplasia, retained testicles. Seems like to me someone who wants to protect themselves from bad breeding...what do others think of this? I would like to write up a good guarantee on my pups and looking for some ideas.

BulliesofNC

Viewing this health guarantee it appears as though it covers them from just about everything that may happen to a Bull Terrier. Not only that but they enforce a 48 hour vet check on all puppies sold. That's just not feasible for those who travel far distances to get their puppies. Additionally, most vets require appointments. They go on to state if a Vet finds a problem they are to take the puppy to a completely different Vet for a second examination. Then after both Vets deam the puppy to have health problem the puppy needs to go back to the breeders Vet for a 3rd checkup to ensure the other two Vets diagnosis was accurate. Holy crap that is some BS. It isn't difficult to read this health guarantee and tell they are striving to ensure they've made it damn near impossible for anyone to abide by their policy, especially if there was a problem and the puppy needed to see 2 Vets within 48 hours after purchase.

Another huge concern is the fact that they listed many disorders associated with Bull Terriers (especially those with poor genes). I'd be scared to buy a puppy from them.

Truth is, if you have confidence in the health of your puppies you do NOT need a long and extensive Health Guarantee. Keeping it simple is the way to go. Viewing a long drawn out health guarantee only presents itself as a document that prevents any liabilities on the part of the breeder. It an attempt by Backyard Breeders to make you think they're legally not responsible.

I'm sorry but I can't help chuckling a little everytime I read a breeders "Health Guarantee" when none are legal binding if the breeder isn't licensed as a business owner and claiming the profits on the sale of their puppies. If the breeder is a backyard breeder selling puppies, kenneling dogs, charging for stud service, etc and pocketing the commision of the puppies and services their "Health Guarantee" can't be looked at like a warranty on a car that was purchased from a dealership and they have to follow what was annotated. Heck, the breeder could simply say "I lied" because their Health Guarantee is not a legal document.

In short their Health Guarantee is just a written "Promise" not any form of true warranty or guarantee and it's not a legal document. However, if they are a breeder who's licensed, insured, and paying taxes their documents can be held accountable in court. Pet stores would also be legally responsible for obvious reasons since they are a legit business.

With this said, the consumer has the upper hand in court on a legal matter involving the health of puppy from a "Backyard Breeder" since the breeders "Health Guarantee" is just a piece of paper.

I could go into great detail on this but don't wish to bore anyone. The individual who purchased this puppy really should have thoroughly analyzed this breeders "Health Guarantee" and realized they really don't have confidence in the health of their puppies.

If the breeder has no pride and heart, and doesn't wish to make right with your friend who got stuck with a dog that has a health issue I suggest conducting the following steps:

Contact AKC and let them know what happened. Provide them with the registration number of the puppy as well as the breeders name.
Contact the owners of the other puppies in the litter and see if they're having the same health issues with their puppy. If they are, it shouldn't be too difficult to band together and contact the breeder to let them know you're going to seek legal action together. Chances are they'll change their tune fast.
If you can't get the other puppy owners contact info ask AKC if they can contact them to find out if they're having any medical issues. If they registered their puppies they shouldn't be hard to get their contact info.

No breeder, that cares about their reputation, wants to get a bad name by doing injustice for a customer that purchased a puppy from them. AKC will blacklist any breeder that continues to receive authentic complaints.

I think your friend made a mistake by going to this breeder for a good quality and healthy Bull Terrier. However, if his/her Vet provides a statement proving the dog had a genetic disorder they could always take them to court. Their "Health Guarantee" is not a legal document and the decision by the judge will be based off the underlining circumstances and facts.

BulliesofNC

I viewed their website again and to be honest I don't think any of their dogs are AKC. She mentioned UKC and provided no pedigrees to view. All the "Show" pictures and ribbons are actually prop photos done by a photography studio not Show.

I think "Sly" is a good name for them.

Here's a photo of one of their puppies. I don't think she'd be displaying this puppy if she was into showing when this puppy wouldn't be qualified to show due to it's colors and markings - per the breed standards.

Zerlett

I completely agree with you! I noticed there "guarantee" was pretty terrifying.. I would be like, uhm...what does it guarantee exactly? It guarantees that the puppy you buy from them may get sick from just about anything, and they will not be held responsible! I agree, I've seen a lot of there puppies and most of them are just weird looking, the markings are most definitely not suitable for show, especially any looking like little cows. LOL. Some people may find that cute, but its highly undesirable for the standard. On there face book they have dogs that there skin just doesnt look right to me, thats when I stumbled across someone commenting that they had a puppy, I went to check out what he looks like now and found a puppy photo of him with demodex, it caused me to ask them about there puppy and there experience with the breeder. This is the photo...

Looks bad huh? Lucky for this puppy his owners loved him enough to treat him fully and he had recovered from his problem.

Many people show in the UKC because its more "laid back" than the akc. Its more family orientated and from what I hear more easy going than the AKC. Thats because the AKC has stricter standards and better looking dogs. So people can show lower quality dogs and win. They have "UKC" champions and I hate to be rude, but thats not hard to get. When I showed my bull terriers in the AKC my red bitch won against another bitch, she had one dog to go against. Can you imagine the competition in the UKC? Not only do they have fewer shows, but I doubt there are ever many dogs to compete against at all. It's not hard to champion out a dog if your competing against very few dogs, not to mention, the quality seen in the UKC which the AKC considers a joke.
Now I actually have UKC paper work for my male Bowzer, whom also has AKC paperwork, the only way UKC gave me paper work was with my AKC paperwork sent to them FIRST, I had to have that to get UKC papers as well. So my guess is that they have AKC paperwork but are choosing to register and show under the UKC because you can get away with so much more. No one I know breeding on conformation or AKC standards would be proud of a puppy with cow markings or demodex. Very sad!

BulliesofNC

When I read on their website their statement of UKC, I was under the impression they were talking about the well known kennel club of England not some fly by night club here in the USA. "The Kennel Club" of UK is a very good club which has been around since 1873 and not to be mistaken for UKC here in USA. Here's a pedigree from KC from one of my Females I owned that came from England:

I checked Sly Eye Bull Terrier out on Facebook. Looking at their Facebook, you'd never know the website and their Facebook were the same people. They only show one (very pet quality) brindle male Bull Terrier throughout their photos. Something very fishy about them.

I looked up a domain name check to see how long their website has been around and the results showed 1 year and 4 months. It also showed that their main website is http://puppydogsbydesign.tripod.com/ depicts 3 other types of dogs that they breed besides Bull Terriers. These people are beginning to look more and more like a puppy mill.

I only spent a few short minutes researching this breeder and it was easy to reveal they are not a reputable breeder and I'm sure many others have gone on their website and left quickly to continue their research for a quality Bull Terrier puppy.

I'm sorry to hear about your friends puppy they purchased from this breeder but they had to have seen the red flags prior to commiting to purchase. I wonder if she even visited her kennels or was met with the puppy in a public location.

It's breeders like this that motivated me to create a document for others to read and utilize in their pursuit to find a reputable Bull Terrier breeder: http://bulliesofnc.com/finding-reputable-bull-terrier-breeder

Zerlett

i commented on a puppy they had for sale and wrote one simple sentence. "does it have demodex?" this is the reply I got...

Thank you for your interest in our puppies! I have never had Demodex in
my lines. I have been slow to update his pictures do resently moving.
He is an awesome puppy the lineage is outstanding. I reserved a male
and female from this litter for my own breeding program. Both the sire
and dam are UKC Champions that placed in the 2nd and 3rd place in UKC
2010 National Top Ten (Bull Terriers). He has a correct bite, awesome
head, great angulation in his legs, tight feet, and a very thick build.
He is an outstanding puppy!

MY REPLY:

Your lieng. I know someone that has got a puppy from you with demodex.
Were spreading the awareness with other members of our forum, were not
buying any puppies from you lol...

HER REPLY:

And what forum might that be?

I'd rather keep her out of the forum so im not writing her back! LoL.

BulliesofNC

That's funny. However, it probably didn't bother her much because I have a feeling she lacks a good sense of pride and without it she'll continue selling puppies like the ones illustrated above to unfortunate people who trusted her. It's actually sad because there's plenty of other breeders out there who are the same way and try their best to fool people for the sake of making money while neglecting the proper health care within their dogs that they're breeding. Just another reason why states need to enforce strict new laws and regulations for breeding animals especially if they're being bred for the purpose of selling to the public.

Zerlett

i agree!!!

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